How is the UK's Intellectual Property Office, responsible for IP rights such as patents, trade marks and designs across the UK, ensuring the majority of its services remain unaffected by lockdown and the coronavirus crisis? Our co-hosts Lee Davies and Gwilym Roberts ask Tim Moss, CEO of the IPO, how his staff have responded to the pandemic and adapted to the "new normal". They chat about the challenges of managing a workforce of 1,250 remotely, the importance of effective communications and the acceleration of digital service transformation. Oh, and tortoises and lamb chops. Read the IPO's latest update about the impact of the pandemic on its services: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/coronavirus-important-update-on-ipo-services
How is the UK's Intellectual Property Office, responsible for IP rights such as patents, trade marks and designs across the UK, ensuring the majority of its services remain unaffected by lockdown and the coronavirus crisis? Our co-hosts Lee Davies and Gwilym Roberts ask Tim Moss, CEO of the IPO, how his staff have responded to the pandemic and adapted to the "new normal". They chat about the challenges of managing a workforce of 1,250 remotely, the importance of effective communications and the acceleration of digital service transformation. Oh, and tortoises and lamb chops. Read the IPO's latest update about the impact of the pandemic on its services: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/coronavirus-important-update-on-ipo-services
Lee Davies 0:18
Hello, and welcome to this podcast from the Chartered Institute of patent attorneys. My name is Lee Davis, the chief executive of CIPA. And through this series of podcasts, I am going to invite CIPA members and some of our key partners to share their stories with me. I've been joined in this adventure by my co host, CIPA council member and honorary Secretary Gwilym Roberts. We are in fact, the two IPS in a pod. Hiya Gwilym, how are you doing?
Gwilym Roberts 0:42
I'm very well Lee, I'm quite excited to be in your your second P and make it very clear you are the first p,
Lee Davies 0:49
that's okay. As long as long as we've got that established where we find I think. So today, Gwilym. And we're going to look at the work of the UK IPO with a particular focus on how the office is responding to the COVID-19 situation. And we're delighted to be joined by the Chief Executive of the UK IPO Tim Moss. Hi, Tim, how are you?
Tim Moss 1:08
Hi there, Lee. Hi, Gwilym. I'm really pleased to join you. And thank you for the invitation.
Lee Davies 1:14
You're more than welcome. And it's it's brilliant to have you with us. Before we get down to the nitty gritty of some of the questions that Gwilym and I might want to bounce off of you. How are you dealing with the situation yourself? How are you feeling?
Tim Moss 1:29
I actually not too bad at all. I mean, I think, as is common for many people there, there are good days and bad days. But I also recognize that I'm incredibly fortunate. Living on a farm in South Wales, we have plenty of space. So actually, I don't really need to get off the farm very often at all, not even to exercise that we have a huge amount of space to do that. And being on a farm. There are always lots lots of things to do. In fact, just a week or so ago, we finished lambing, so that kept me busy on a couple of occasions, it was quite interesting to sort of deliver a lamb and then 20 minutes later be on a on a Microsoft Teams call with half the board or something else. So it's quite a bit of variety. So it's been quite good for me. But I recognize I'm incredibly lucky compared to many others who don't quite have the luxury of that space and things going on. So
Gwilym Roberts 2:19
What other animals have you got then?
Tim Moss 2:23
We've got 30 odd cows. And we've got we've now got about 60 or 70 sheep. We we've actually ended up with about 47 lambs so so yeah, it's been a busy few weeks. We've also got three new calves. And we've got another another couple due to due to carbon in a couple of weeks time. So it's it's never a dull moment here. And all good fun.
Lee Davies 2:51
How on earth do you manage to simultaneously run an organization is large and complex as a UK IPO team?
Tim Moss 2:57
Well, I do have a strange setup. I actually live with my in laws. There's my in laws farm. So some might say that's a mad thing to do. But actually it's worked quite well for a number of years. So yeah, it's every so mucks in and does what needs to be done, but I'm just, I'm just a lowly farmhand. I do as I'm told, and you get the jobs to be done.
Lee Davies 3:23
Did you live a lonely existence Gwilym?
Gwilym Roberts 3:26
I got two cats. And but we haven't been into the catting season yet. So I've still got two cats. Other than that, yeah, I've got children everywhere. We're all obviously broadcasting from random rooms in the house. I'm in the kitchen. So if you hear weightlifting noises behind me This is because it turned into a sort of occasional gym as well. So I'll go on mute for those moments.
Lee Davies 3:49
I am I had a rather difficult one the other day. We unfortunately lost our dog right at the start of lockdown he was only five so so I've lost my running partner and the kind of my company really when it means getting out the house. But we've got a tortoise and the tortoise has been in the house because we've got a fox problem at the moment. And I was mid broadcast the other day when he started bashing into my ankle as if he was trying to mate with my foot and it was quite painful being whacked on by tortoise.
Gwilym Roberts 4:19
You might need to edit that bit, do walk your tortoise
Lee Davies 4:27
not managed to find a lead that'd fitt him. Anyway, enough of the frivolity, we've got some I've got some work today.
Tim Moss 4:35
I think I think the issue is whether you beat him in the race or
Lee Davies 4:39
not these days. I'm long past that. Tim, if we can if we can start with how the UK IPO needed to move from how it was used to working to working I guess most of your staff are now working remotely and that you're trying to observe social distancing and all of the other restrictions that are on us at the moment. So what was like, how did you manage that move?
Tim Moss 5:03
Well, I think the team managed it incredibly well. The staff Actually, I was on holiday in New Zealand. So it was a great place to be probably the safest place on the planet at that moment in time. And I didn't get back till the 21st of March, the office actually started moving to remote working quite early on, there was a suspected case at the on site, not with us, but with the Office of National Statistics next door. And so early in March actually removed certainly those that were of high risk to remote working in very quickly, and then put a program in place to do that. So by the time I got back into the into working on the 23rd of March, they managed to make sure that the entire office is into working remotely. So I think we had at that point, now over 95% of our staff could work effectively from home. And that means that over a two week period, so some fantastic work from the team, or right the way across from a business continuity planning, and then all the IT teams, facilities, teams and operational teams to make that that jump in such a short period of time was phenomenal. So I came back in and a lot of hard work had already been done. But, you know, lots is carried on since then. So they've done a fantastic job.
Lee Davies 6:21
And what were you already set up for that in terms of remote access to servers, and that kind of thing? Or was there a bit of preparation that needed to be done before you start could work fully from home.
Tim Moss 6:34
I mean, I think a lot of preparatory work put in place, I mean, we put a big investment in over the last two years where we've moved completely to everyone having a Microsoft Surface Pro as their main bucket and moving away from fixed terminals. And so that was a great investment, which meant that we could then support much more mobile working anyway. And interestingly, we had just after Christmas, there was a major water outage affecting the Newport site and surrounding area. And so we actually weren't, couldn't have people on site for three days. And that was actually, with hindsight, a really good test of how we could cope with things like how do we make sure that the VPN is work and everything else with that number of people working remotely. And so we were in some ways fortunate that that that that occurred, because we tested a few things, and made some improvements. So it's been a mixture of investment over the last couple of years to make sure we can operate flexibly, as well as then, you know, updating things as we go along. And actually in the current situation, then seeing what do we need to do? What processes we need to put in place to ensure that things can work effectively over a period of time and
Lee Davies 7:47
Gwilym you're um, The folk in your place will be having regular contact with the UK IPO. How are you finding the connectivity now that focus outside of the office?
Gwilym Roberts 7:58
Oh, it's been we've been really impressed. I think the last few weeks have been about change, and about imposed incredibly rapid change. And I was discussing this with a colleague from another firm the other day, what would have taken a year's worth of partners meetings, just deciding what to call the remote system has been basically compacted into approximately a week's worth of intense it across the UK, in various different formats. And I think the IPO has been a really good example of, you know, getting on with it and getting it done. And it's never gonna be perfect in terms of people dealing with change is always a system of great concern to people. But I think the way the IPO has done it, it's been sympathetic, it's communicated really well. We've been really happy with that. And the communication, by the way has been really key. We don't want to be in situations where we don't know what's happening next week. Well, you gotta you gotta have more than just a week's notice of stuff. And the IPO has been really clear cut on that, too. So no, it's been a good story for us.
Lee Davies 8:57
Fantastic. That must be good for you to hit him.
Tim Moss 9:00
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And, and having the feedback from customers and stakeholders been brilliant. I mean, we've really appreciated the support we've had from the profession. As I said, we've been having weekly calls with with with CIPA, with sigma effect p IP fed, and others just to ensure that as an office, we understand what things look like from a customer's perspective, you know, and that we're responding to the needs of our customers in the right way. So we've really appreciated the both the support the input and the help. And I think it's been really good in terms of the way the whole profession is pulled together at this this time. And I said, I think it's a great example. And yes, you know, things have had to happen at speed. And I said, I just praise to the, the teams in the office. I said the, you know, I'm incredibly proud of what they've achieved in such a short period of time. They've done an amazing job.
Lee Davies 9:50
Yeah, I think I think we all on reflection can look at the particularly the way our staff has been the same at CIPA, the staff have responded magnificently to an alien way of working quite quick. So just coming onto your teams and maybe particularly folker, in sort of leadership or supervisory roles, how are they finding life? Six or seven weeks on? It's been tough for people.
Tim Moss 10:12
Yeah, so I mean, I think, and it's all different, everyone's different, everyone responds in different ways. And everyone has different circumstances outside of work as well, which have a big impact. So, you know, we know we've had, you know, got a number of staff who have, you know, children of school age, and so how do they balance homeschooling with work? We even have situations where we have both parents who are working in the office, and they're balancing how they manage the school day between them. Some work in the morning, some work in the afternoon. So it's very different for different people. Also, I think, just for some, it's, you know, sitting in front of a screen all day, some people like it, other people hate it. Yeah. But also, how do you how do you sort of respond to this this new normal, I think, certainly a leadership perspective. Again, you've got to question and challenge yourself to say, Okay, how do we do this effectively in this, in this new normal? It's something we've been discussing as a board recently, you know, everything from down to how do we engage with staff? How do we communicate? You know, when you can't do the face to face physical meetings? Yes, we've made great use of things like Microsoft Teams, and Skype and Yammer and a range of other tools. But the same time you've got, you've got to think, you know, how do we do things differently? So, tomorrow, we're doing an ask the board on Microsoft Teams, we did one a couple of weeks back, and we had about 150, all joining in and able to ask questions on the chat function. And that went down really well. And we'll look to do that, you know, I said, we're doing one on tomorrow and potentially losing every fortnight. But again, constantly asking ourselves, what, what's, what needs to be done? I'm writing a weekly blog for staff, again, just to keep them informed about what's happening from an organization perspective. But also, you know, give them a bit of an update of what's happening on the farm, because they quite like that as well. How many lambs are born and the pitch of a nice, cute calf always goes down? Well, so but also doing it, we've done a couple of video blogs as well, just to give a bit a different flavor. So it's, I think it's about how do you try things out? But I think also, the other question that we've been looking at recently is, how do things change over time? You know, it's one thing you had the initial startup, but now this becomes the norm. And actually people's resilience level stress levels, you know, change over time, as well. And that's something where we look, we're running some some surveys at the moment, and over the next couple of weeks to try and gauge how things have changed over time for people
Gwilym Roberts 12:42
that one of the issues for Tim, for an organization like yours is just the scale of it's a bit more than I think most of your audience is probably used to, although CIPA itself is pretty massive actually lee? I mean, how many of you are there? And how are you kind of coping with the sheer scale of this operation of keeping in touch?
Tim Moss 13:01
Well, I mean, there's 1250 people. And so yeah, that's, that's quite a sizable number of people to keep in touch with. And I think it's also it is a challenge. And I think one of the questions we're asking ourselves is, how do we make sure people don't get lost? And, you know, it's easy for people to hide as well, a little bit. And so I think there's a lot of reliance on on doing multiple things. So absolutely is a key role for team leaders, managers, the whole management and leadership chain, to make sure that they are on a regular basis, engaging with their, their, everyone within their team, and, you know, make sure they're keeping in touch with them. And there's been some fantastic sort of ways that individual teams have done that, you know, whether it be sort of people still having their their sort of coffee mornings, and coffee afternoons and tea afternoons, or, you know, maybe later on the gin and tonic or the beer together. You know, it's the run quizzes, they're still having that sort of team meetings. But also, then I think, you know, a number of people here is that it's the one to one texts and the messages just to say how you're doing, you're keeping people in touch, doing both the formal and the informal. And I think also, we've got to keep questioning ourselves. Are we doing enough? You know, what else can we do, especially as this goes on and on? And I think that's the bit that that I'm certainly spending some time thinking more about is, you know, how do we ensure that we, you know, we keep things fresh and alive and also engaged over a period of time?
Lee Davies 14:37
That's, that's really important, isn't it? I know, I've become more attuned to the importance of mental well being of my focus, they work remotely. So that's when we have our weekly check ins and we do a we do a weekly pop quiz, which is quite good because it enables people to lighten up a wee bit and perhaps engage in ways that they wouldn't normally do. But we always try and make sure that we do this little mental health check. We all okay, it's okay to say you're not, it's okay to say you're struggling. So if we move on to things that you might have learned from this experience, because I'm sure we've all been through a fairly rapid learning curve, is there anything that the IPO has picked up through working remotely? working in different ways that you think you're retained? When you go back to whatever normal looks like in the future?
Tim Moss 15:25
Certainly, there are, there are a number of things which we won't want to reverse. From the, I think, on the technical side, I think the, the facts should be dead. So I think that's that that's one we, we've got a way to work around that. So you know, it's tell me that was always on the plan, it was taking a long time, but is basically in love with the fax machine, please, you know, it's time to let it go and do things differently. So that's one end of the scale. I mean, I think, on the other end of scale, that there's some some big lessons around? Well, you know, we don't need 250 people to be in work. I mean, we didn't have 251 go, cuz we already had 350 dedicated home workers, but we can work quite effectively, remotely, and do things differently. And I think that, you know, so I think one of the things that we are going to look at as a board, we've already picked up some work around this is, you know, what are the the things that we, you know, we really do need to sort of bed in going forward. A number of the workarounds that we've put in place for some of the processes, some of them are definitely temporary. But there are a number that are so productionize now and, and will stay with us for for the future. And we will then do those further or, or they'll be superseded by the transformation work that we're doing. But certainly, there's a lot of learning that that needs to go on. We're at an early stage of it. And but we'll be looking at because we do recognize that, you know, aspects of this remote working, social distancing will be with us for quite some time to come. And so we do need to make sure that all this is normalized, as far as we can, and and as resilient going forward.
Gwilym Roberts 17:10
I think crises are these are real accelerators, things that have been kind of bubbling away. So for example, video conferencing is perhaps the best example. I'm not you guys. But I've had the capability for it for ages. But it was fairly exceptional really to use it. And suddenly, everyone's got it. And I think as you say, to him going forward, we're not going to move away from this. That's probably one area, I know that you guys don't use it quite so much as some patent offices, in terms of hearings and so on. But I mean, that's one really interesting area in terms of communication. This whole period has opened up a huge new phase of increased communication, I think, in many ways. Do you see that continuing? past? You know, what, once we kind of get through this, this weird patch?
Tim Moss 17:54
Yes. It has to I mean, I think it's really, there needs to be some some big lessons learned, sessions going on around, you know, what has worked? Well, what has worked better in this time? And how do we then maintain it? So, yes, you know, the fact that we are doing video conferencing all the time, and we can use it for a whole range of things. You know, actually, you know, let's make that the norm for some things. So, you know, I know, yes, we're doing some hearings and things like that, should that become the normal? Or how does that work, and in reality, in a world where, you know, you know, and I said, you know, this is just me, speculating forward, social distancing of some format or another will be with us for quite some time, you know, you're getting people together in a room just doesn't fit with that. So it will become the normal way of doing things and, and, you know, especially to ensure the well being of staff, for all of us, you want a minute, you will need to minimize contact. So, there's lots that we will will pick up and said, We just started on a journey to to think about what that might look like going forward. But definitely a lot of good stuff. And, I mean, I think you're just to give you another example, there was a the work we're doing with EPO, and they're looking at, you know, changing procedures so that we can, you know, have virtual meetings as proper meetings, we have actually had a council meeting of EPO a few weeks back it but it had to be called a mock Council. Because officially, you can't have an IE Council. But so they're already putting procedures in place to change that, so that we could have virtual meetings going forward. Now, you're never gonna do that all the time. Because there is also real value in getting together when you're able to, but you know, for maybe one of the meetings a year, it would make sense, especially if the agenda is is slightly lighter or more of an information nature then that could work very effectively. And I think it's it just puts more options into the into the pot going forward. So when we are able actually to meet together again. So that's just another example of some of the changes that will happen.
Lee Davies 20:01
Thinking about the new normal, you, your guys and girls are back working either from the office or remotely or a mixture, and super members get back to their desks and and are starting to work as they did previously. What's on the horizon? In the world of the UK IPO? What can we look forward to in the next six, nine months?
Tim Moss 20:23
Um, well, I think I mean, over the next year or so, I mean, the, the priorities we set in our plan were, were quite simple, we had four of them. So one was making sure the services run and run effectively. So I think we've proved that we can do that in different circumstances. Second, secondly, is still all the work around, you know, you 31st of December deadline, and, you know, at the end of the transition or the implementation period, and the fact that we will need to onboard, you know, 2 million trademarks and, and, and designs, as still a huge amount of work, it may be something that hasn't been talked about for the last couple of months, in quite the same way. But we're very focused on that and making sure that happens and is as smooth as possible for all IP rights holders, as we move towards the end of the year. Thirdly, is still the work we're doing on transformation. You know, we have still have old legacy systems. You know, some of the work we've had to do recently on work arounds has just shown us how difficult sometimes it is to do these things. Although the teams have been very innovative and found great ways of doing it. But we have this big program over the next sort of few years to completely change all the systems we're doing, building on the great work of the renewals system that we've put in place last year. And we're now at the point where I think we hit hit March, about 92% of all renewals came through our new system, which was a fantastic achievement. From the team, we're also been doing some work on on AI. And, again, piloting an AI tool within trademarks for image searching. So you know, that that's coming up, but a big transformation program. And and the sort of the fourth big priority for us was around linking into the AI. really developing on the work we did last year to one of the big issues that AI is posing for the IP framework. In the work we've been doing, why poner other offices around, you know, looking at the big questions that AI is pose, but not only just AI other other bits of some of the tech landscape that are really starting to, you know, cause questions for the IP and how should the IP framework adapt? So we're all aware of things like the dabbas applications have been in the press, or the the announcement from the USPTO. I think last week, they turn them down as well to say that, you know, a patent has to have an individual's the inventor, but we know these are, you know, there's work going on that which is testing the IP framework, and we need to look at that going forward.
Gwilym Roberts 23:09
God, do you remember when we used to worry about Brexit and AI? Lee? Those are the days
Lee Davies 23:14
seems like a lifetime ago.
Gwilym Roberts 23:15
But we are we should we should definitely come back to those in a future podcast because they're both really just okay.
Lee Davies 23:21
Yeah, we will hold you to him if that's okay.
Tim Moss 23:25
No, please, please do and I think I mean, link to that. Let's not forget, I mean, we've got teams busy working at the moment on the on the trade side. So the the discussions with with the EU are happening, virtually. And the IP teams are involved in that, looking at the IP elements. So you know, there is a whole huge trade there, not just for the EU, but also with us and others. And the team, the IPO are busy supporting that, and ensuring that the IPP understood, and I've been discussed in detail.
Lee Davies 23:57
Fabulous, so maybe when we're when we're through this, or at least we seem to be through it, we can come back and revisit some of these things. That'd be really good.
Gwilym Roberts 24:04
Just one, just one quick, two questions, actually. First of all, a quick one on productivity. I mean, I think of great interest to anybody on the other side of the kind of dividers that we're dealing with Office actions and so on, to get a feel for how your examiner's are dealing with the kind of the changing work in terms of actually generating the output because we kind of need to know that and hopefully, we're not seeing much change in productivity.
Tim Moss 24:32
No, I think the teams have responded incredibly well to the changing environment. And actually, we've seen the limited impact on on overall productivity. that there has been some impact. I mentioned earlier things like you know, we've got number of a number of our staff who are having to deal with homeschooling and situations like that. closet that they're able to work for is is changed, but actually we are getting through the work. We're not seeing huge changes. into the turnaround times or anything like that. And so, you know, we're we're certainly operating it, you know, I wouldn't say quite full capacity, you know, there has been a bit of an impact, and there will be. But, you know, it's certainly very good levels. And we're not seeing that having a significant impact on the service we can provide to customers. And certainly, as we implement even more workarounds, and make those better, we hope to ensure that we can improve productivity further.
Gwilym Roberts 25:29
that's reassuring to hear. And I think, yeah, because in the sense that that the continuity is something that everybody's counting on, and I think it's something that everyone seems to be succeeding in their own ways. The other the other one very quickly is question two a day your sheep for wool or meat.
Tim Moss 25:52
Sheep are definitely for meat. And certainly the the wool market in the UK is not a good one. And if you can get the the money that you pay for shearing back off the wall, then you're doing incredibly well. So it's, sadly we don't have merino wool or anything like that you can have a premium. So no, it's purely for for meat.
Gwilym Roberts 26:18
So okay, so and then following on from that, for your staff is usually a nice little nice little morale boost will be a lamb chop each in due course, is that on the cards
Tim Moss 26:30
Certainly not for the vegetarians and vegans in the office. And we have to appeal to all so And sadly, I don't think we have quite enough for that either. So I can't can't commit to that one at this point. And I said, I think a number of our staff might it might object on on, on grounds for for that one.
Lee Davies 26:55
Yeah, I think most likely. Thanks for the question. Gwilym. I think the big takeout for me from that one was that no one's ever gonna get fleeced by the UK IPO. Hey! Tim. Oh, sorry for that. Thank you so much for spending some time with us for this chat today. Really appreciate you coming online and sharing your thoughts with us. And I look forward to doing it again in the future and Gwilym. Will you come back again?
Gwilym Roberts 27:24
I loved it. I love that one my lamb chops.
Tim Moss 27:28
No, I mean, from my point of view, thank thank you ever so much. And just to say thank you to your members in terms of the support they give us really appreciate it. And, you know, I said the aim in throughout this is to to make things as normal as possible. You know, please, if there are issues do get in touch, but please do it digitally. Just don't send anything from it in the post because that makes life an awful lot harder. So do get in touch. But do that through electronic means and work electronically wherever you can. But thank you very much for your support. We appreciate it.
Lee Davies 28:01
Super stuff. Thanks. Thanks, Tim. Goodbye and take care. See you later.
Tim Moss 28:06
Bye bye bye. Thank you