Two IPs In A Pod
Brilliant inventions, fresh product designs, iconic brand names and artistic creativity are not only the building blocks of successful business - they deliver a better world for us all. But these valuable forms of intellectual property must be protected in order to flourish. We are the Chartered Institute of Patent Attorneys - the UK's largest intellectual property organisation. Our hosts Lee Davies and Gwilym Roberts chat with entrepreneurs, creatives, patent attorneys and the occasional judge about how patents, trade marks, designs and copyright can improve our lives and solve problems for humanity.
Two IPs In A Pod
INTA San Diego Special with... INTA President Elisabeth Stewart Bradley
Lee and Gwilym have landed in San Diego for the INTA 2025 Annual Meeting! Elisabeth Stewart Bradley, INTA President and Vice President of Innovation Law: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Brand Protection at Bristol Myers Squibb, shares her journey from English literature major to IP lawyer, and how the organisation is evolving to support its members in a rapidly changing landscape. Her Presidential Task Force is focused on helping IP professionals adapt to technological disruption and showcase their value beyond what AI can offer.
Gollum, we're in San Diego. We're in San Diego in a box In a box, yeah. So it looks like a small fish tank. Well, a large fish tank actually, doesn't it? You could get a shark in here, probably, yeah, or probably a small whale, a small whale, a small whale, yeah. It's a fish tank, though, and whales aren't fish. Oh, it's a mammal tank.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that a dolphin tank yeah. What are we here?
Speaker 1:So we're here because we're podcasting from Inter again.
Speaker 2:How cool is that? It is cool, and they've given us this box. It's fantastic. That's not a nice post-express size, but we're right in the middle of some giant exhibition halls.
Speaker 1:So it's beautiful, and we should probably say that it's early o'clock for us at the moment, isn't it? We've not actually done any podcasting yet. We're just getting a feel for the place. When there's a bit of a buzz going on later on, it's going to make the podcast quite authentic, isn't it? Some bustling in the background well, hopefully we just started messaging out should we put some chairs outside for people to come and sit and watch us?
Speaker 2:that's really funny. Let's do that.
Speaker 1:We can steal them from that booth over there someone's to come and charge us for them, though, aren't?
Speaker 2:they. I am really looking forward to it. It's going to be good fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've got a great line-up, so let's crack on.
Speaker 4:Lee Davis and Gwilym Roberts are the two IPs in a pod and you are listening to a podcast on intellectual property Brought to you by the Chartered Institute of Patent Attorneys.
Speaker 1:Well, now we've got on the podcast this year's INTA president. Do you see what I did there as well?
Speaker 2:I said INTA because I now know that that's the way to say it, and not to keep saying inter.
Speaker 1:INTA is the corporate.
Speaker 2:The cons guys at inter get really cross when you call them that. I've got it. I've got it INTA. So.
Speaker 1:INTA president Elizabeth Stewart Bradley. Yes.
Speaker 4:Did I get your name right, Elizabeth? Perfect, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much, so happy to be here.
Speaker 1:I think you said while we were getting ready this is your second one.
Speaker 4:Second podcast in my life yeah, who did you do the first one with PLI Practicing Law Institute. It was with ATN, the CEO of INTA, and it was a chance to talk about IP and it was fantastic, so I was thrilled to be invited here.
Speaker 1:Was it as professional as this one.
Speaker 4:It had a different vibe, but it was on camera which adds a certain other element.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we don't do that, it's a shame because I was thinking it's a shame the camera's not here because it can't pick up your amazing presidential outfit, that you have to wear the big hat. It's gone to waste the robes.
Speaker 4:The scepter.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having us in. Oh sorry, oh, i-n-t-a, i-n-t-a. Thank you for having us here. Thank you for this amazing podcasting booth, which is just extraordinary, wonderful. Thank you for having us here. Thank you for this amazing podcasting book, which is just extraordinary, and thank you for guesting on the podcast. So it's a conversation and it's your conversation. It's about you and the work that you do, so do you want to start off there by telling us give us the potted career history, whatever?
Speaker 4:you're happy to share. First let me put you both at ease. You may hear me say into as well. So actually, please don't worry. No, honestly, honestly.
Speaker 4:INTA I will probably say but it's not a crime to say INTA. So so yeah, actually I was going to be an English professor and I went to college in Virginia and I was an English literature major and I was a psychology minor. No thoughts of law, no legal members of my family, and then, right before I graduated truly the last second I took a business law class second semester of senior year and I loved it and it opened my eyes and I had no idea about that career.
Speaker 1:So just a little kind of segue that way.
Speaker 4:Just a tiny turn. Tiny turn in the road, and I became a paralegal for two years because I thought it was a little bit rash to just head off to law school. Having had, you know, two months of exposure to it, I wanted to learn a little bit more, so I worked for a law firm in Richmond, virginia, in structured finance, which as you imagine an English major is not particularly well versed in that, but that was super interesting and that didn't put you off, it didn't put me.
Speaker 4:And in fact, a few lawyers tried to put me off and saying this is a really stressful career, think about it. So it was interesting to have that perspective, but I did decide to give it a shot and I applied to law school and I did not take one intellectual property law class in law school, which is probably not something that would happen today. I think today it's part of the court curriculum, but I was going to be a litigator.
Speaker 4:I was completely focused on moot court and arguments and that sort of thing. And I got to go to New York as a summer associate and graduated and moved to New York City, Started as a litigator and loved it. They rotate you around. So I did employment law, insurance law and then one of the first cyber squatting cases in the world came through the courts in New York City and our client was able to withstand it. A lot of people settle.
Speaker 4:They kind of get blackmailed in the settling group but our client refused to do that, and so we went to court and it was fascinating. From there I said I need to do more of this activity.
Speaker 2:That's exciting. You're making law there as well.
Speaker 4:That's exciting. You're making law there as well. That's groundbreaking stuff. It was technology. No one really even understood how domain names work. To be honest, that was quite a large part of it, and, yes, so from there I actually changed firms to go to a firm that helped me learn on the job, and one of my biggest clients was Cadbury chocolate, and so from there Proper chocolate. Proper chocolate.
Speaker 2:Now owned by Hershey right.
Speaker 4:No, no, no, Cadbury is now owned. Actually, they were acquired by Kraft and then became Mondelez.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 4:Yes, but I got to come to the UK a fair amount when I worked for Cadbury. Yeah, bourneville, bourneville. There's a wonderful factory and history up there and it was amazing. So, yeah, that was the beginning of the IP career, I guess and tell us a little bit about how INTI operates.
Speaker 1:So how long was your presidency and when did you start it?
Speaker 4:perfect, so I began volunteering with INTI soon after I joined Cadbury and you start on committees. I was on the famous and well known Mark committee soon after I joined Cadbury and you start on committees. I was on the famous and well-known Mark Committee, which made sense with Cadbury.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:And you start getting exposed to committee work and, depending on your interests, you can become more and more involved, and I really loved it. I loved the mission that INTA was doing. I loved the additional training I was getting to my private practice, leadership opportunities, exposure to industries from around the world, and so I kept getting more involved. I served on a presidential task force on brands and innovation, which was all very new at the time. You know, there was no social media. I mean, there was truly barely you know, barely people were comfortable on the internet.
Speaker 1:What a strange world it was back then. I know it's tremendous, At least I understood it.
Speaker 2:I didn't get this one at all.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and so from there, I eventually was asked to serve on the board of directors, which is just a tremendous opportunity to see amicus briefs that are coming through and have the chance to. How big is the board? The board is about 35 members.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 4:Global. It's in-house external counsel yeah, yes, in-house external counsel, yes. And then I was asked to co-chair the annual meeting that would have been in Singapore in 2020, but, of course, it went virtual yes. And so I had a bit of a break in between the board of directors and after that they asked me to become an officer and the officer track at the time and that's some of the news I wanted to share with you.
Speaker 4:At the time it was a six-year ladder, so you start as secretary and you learn a tremendous amount about the organization that way and then you become treasurer and you learn about the finances and how important the annual meeting is to INTA's operations. And then you become a vice president, and so it's a six-year ladder. So yeah so when people ask how long is the presidency, it itself is a year, but it takes quite a bit to get to that year. And it's nice because it's very cohesive. That's quite a commitment when you're working.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 4:it is, but it has tremendous benefits. So I think the two kind of dovetail really nicely. I think it helped me excel in my career because I had such opportunities.
Speaker 2:You said there was some news there.
Speaker 4:Yes. So INTA, you will hear in the strategic plan which is being unveiled today at the opening ceremonies. We have a new strategic plan. It's going from 2026 to 2029. And as part of that strategic plan, one of the goals is to help build the INTA of the future. The world is changing tremendously. How do we make sure that our members and INTA itself keeps up with this pace? So the officer track used to only be open to corporate members, such as myself. Six years, quite a commitment, as you've mentioned. But we have now changed that so that two of the positions are actually now open to law firm associate members, which has many benefits, one of which shortens the corporate ladder, the officer ladder for corporates. So we think that will make it a little bit easier to get people to get the commitment from their company and to but also gets more diverse voices, gets more diverse voices and we have some tremendously talented associate members that it used to be serving on the board or perhaps the one council spot.
Speaker 4:Those were your opportunities for leadership and now we have this chance to say, hey, you can actually join the officer track, which I think is super exciting.
Speaker 2:We've had a lot of positive feedback that's quite a couple of interesting points there. One is cipa cipa, as we're now calling it. Yeah, we're cipa cipa, we have it's all voluntary. Um, all the offices, majority of the office is voluntary, and so finding a president, I suspect probably less onerous than what you may have to do. I'm guessing, even then, though, to finding a president, I suspect, is probably less onerous than what you may have to do. I'm guessing, even then, though, to find a president whose business is comfortable with that. You know, giving them that space is a big ask, and we get great support from everyone who does do it. But yeah, it's tricky, isn't it? And on that point, how onerous is your year? Is it nonstop? Do you get to do any day job? How does it work? How earnest is your year? Is it non-stop? Do you get?
Speaker 4:to do any day job. How does it work? It's actually quite cyclical and because I've been able to observe this, you know, while being other positions. I was prepared for it, and so around. Of course, the annual meeting. I would say this is peak, peak time commitment, which rightly so. But there are four board meetings a year and including government affairs programs. Four board meetings a year and including government affairs programs.
Speaker 4:And then on top of that thrilling part of the presidency is getting to do delegations to ip offices around the world sure so we kicked off january in ottawa with the canadian ip office, which was just such a tremendous way to start, and then in april we were in brussels meeting with the eu parliament and lots of other members of the government. So so, around those events, the commitment spikes. But then, for example, I think I had half of March, half of April all to myself.
Speaker 1:I envision.
Speaker 4:June will be fairly non-INTA related. I actually I was prepared for it, so I think it's manageable and I'm lucky that my company is really supportive and my immediate manager is incredibly supportive and I have the best team ever who are here. We're all trying to keep the work going while we're all at IMTA, so it's truly a collective effort.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of the organizations do see that with these organizations like IMTA and SEPA, because somebody's got to do it but it is for the benefit of the greater good. So I think people want to take it in turns to kind of delegate. So it's good to hear when businesses give you that space.
Speaker 4:Yes, absolutely, because INTA is so involved in policy and advocacy and that serves the industry, serves my company. So it truly is a virtuous cycle which I think helps show the value of the role. And, not to mention, it's such an amazing community, the people here. You meet them 20 years ago. They become lifelong friends from around the world. We truly know people in almost every country. It's special.
Speaker 4:It really is special. So I get a tremendous amount of energy from it and I leave from these meetings just really motivated and so impressed by our community.
Speaker 1:Can I ask a question about the presidency? So at SIPA we have a so it's a three-year gig, so not six years. So you're coming as the vice president, you'll serve a year as president, and then you'll serve a year as the immediate past president, and then you're free and to a large extent the agenda is set for the president, because there are always things that SIPA is working on in the IP space. That's perfectly on our radar. But equally, we ask our president to also bring with her or him some kind of theme or personal ambitions. Do you get the chance to shake the presidency in that way? Do you bring stuff into INTA that otherwise wouldn't be there?
Speaker 4:It's a super question. One of the most exciting opportunities of being president is you have a presidential task force and you get to set that agenda, that theme, of course, making sure it aligns with priorities of INTA. But that is the chance I had to look at INTA and what it has done for me and where we want it to be in the future, and it's amazing how it corresponds with the strategic plan and wanting to ensure INTA itself is evolving. I want to ensure that our members are thriving in this incredibly dynamic, complex environment, and so what my task force is looking at is supporting members as their practice changes around them, as technologies are changing around them. There's hardly anyone who does just trademark law anymore. It's now become incredibly broad and, depending on your company, you may be doing patents and treatments, copyrights, design, data compliance. So I got to say I would like to find ways for INTA to support its members as this happens Really innovative, hopefully actionable ways to take back to their practice and say this is how I can help us, this is how I'm adding value.
Speaker 4:So that was really important to me and, uh, I guess if I have a north star, there's probably two. Two parts to it is service. I want to serve our members. We're here to serve the members, so I'm listening to everyone as we walk around. What do you need? What can we do more of? Yeah, and show our appreciation for them, but given today's world budgetary pressures, getting the money to attend these events, you want to make sure IT is adding value. So that's what I'm trying to do through my presidential task force.
Speaker 1:Service and value. That's a great message.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and it feels good. And as I speak with members, it seems to resonate with them that we're all feeling pressure to do more with less. And how can you support your role given AI? How do you show that you're better than AI? You know all of these things.
Speaker 2:I was going to ask about that because you said your task force is going to look at some of the changes and things that are happening and, of course, that ties in with your 26 to 29 strategic plan, which is about a changing environment. What are the threats, then, the threats or challenges that you're seeing? I think you mentioned AI, for example.
Speaker 4:Yes, AI, emerging technologies, I think, budgetary pressures, also complex geopolitics, you know, trying to navigate both kind of globalism. And then now we're seeing nationalism. And how do we as global members navigate that world? And I think we are expected to kind of go beyond the average run of the day, run of the mill task. We're asked to add strategic value, and so I think our members, now it's not enough to come and give good legal advice. You need to be aware of the entire landscape that you're operating in, the competitive pressures. What are your business priorities and how are you going to help your business achieve that? So I think you have to come in much more strategically thinking than perhaps we were even two decades ago. We came out with a very specific purpose Trademark law. We're going to be the best trademark lawyers we can be. But now, unfortunately, I don't think that's enough To be considered a successful in-house member. You're going to have to bring a lot more to the table. So that's a lot of pressure on people.
Speaker 4:And you know when you're reading the headlines about the, the job cuts and you know the cutting back everywhere, so that that just we're operating under pressure. So I I think inta is really uniquely positioned to help support our members through that and to be that resource that you know. Once you have the membership fee, you have access to an incredible amount of training and webinars and materials that you don't have to pay for. So that's really nice.
Speaker 1:So one of the things that we always find quite fascinating or I find quite fascinating. So as a Chief Executive of CIPA, obviously I see the relationship between my members as volunteers, whether that be on a committee or so. We don't have a board. We have a council. Mine meets 12 times a year, so four times a year would be lovely I never do, but there we go.
Speaker 1:But so four times a year would be lovely. I never do, but there we go, but also my staff, and I'm imagining there's the same dynamic at INTA, so that could be quite vibrant kind of that relationship. Have you found that in your time as an officer?
Speaker 4:Yes, I am so impressed with the staff of INTA and I imagine you've just, if I may say, finished speaking with Heather Steinmeier who was incredibly impressive our chief policy officer and our CEO, I'm sure seeing him in action. You'll see him in the opening ceremony.
Speaker 1:Etienne was on the podcast last year Fantastic.
Speaker 4:And you know this is not my day job, so I have people helping me get through and understand. And when we go to Brussels, you know I'm there to represent the brand perspective and to say these are how we're seeing counterfeits. They're there talking about the nuances of policy and impact. You know the counterfeiting legislation and you know the patent packages and they go into exquisite detail about a diverse range of issues. The ITA staff is some of the most prepared members of any organization that I feel so fortunate to work with them and I don't think I could do this job without them.
Speaker 1:I was going to say that's quite a scary environment, isn't it, when you're parachuted into meetings with policymakers. It's not my day job at all.
Speaker 4:Yeah, exactly, and you know I'm not used to it. This role is almost like running a company, because you're not just talking about IP, you're talking about you know. How does the latest you know US administration comments about DEI? How does that affect our strategic plan? How does that affect our members?
Speaker 1:Can we talk a little bit about that? Sure, is that okay? Sure, happy to. I opened the door to it, being, as we are here in the States, we were quite scared to trample our large feet but mine aren't that big. But, elizabeth, you've opened the door, so let's go. How does it feel to be working at the moment in a political kind of ideology or regime where the AI is being challenged in this way?
Speaker 4:So you know, I think we are. It's very typical in the US. You switch administrations often every four years, so we are accustomed to seeing swings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, of course, typical in the.
Speaker 4:US, you switch administrations often every four years, so we are accustomed to seeing swings, and so we have noted that you're not going to have the same approach to DEI forever, and so I think, given the progress that was made a few years ago, at some point you might reach a tipping point where it then has to start coming back, and so I do think what we're trying to do now is to ensure that we're supporting our members, making them feel valued and included. This is such a diverse association. We can do that in ways that are not considered perhaps going too far, so I think we're striking the right balance.
Speaker 4:Well, it's not even that. We want to do things that have value for our members. We don't want to do things just to do them right and so. I think coming here, one of the best things about INTA is every voice is welcome. Truly, you can bring any viewpoint you have and you will feel welcome here, and so I think we're still able to do that, despite the changes that we have recently seen. That's good.
Speaker 4:Yeah and we feel good about that and in fact, we still continue that aspect, as a huge part of our strategic plan is ensuring that all members feel welcome and being a good citizen in the world. You know how can we support small SMEs and do pro bono work and make sure that everyone feels empowered. So I feel comfortable actually that we found a path forward that still respects the law that's now in the United States.
Speaker 1:Ip has legislative boundaries. I always struggle with that. That is a beautiful thing, Legislative boundaries but it doesn't have social boundaries, does it? It is a global event in that sense.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's very true, and often parts of IP are not particularly controversial. We are here IP supports innovation, ip supports businesses, ip supports the economy. Those are all positive things that almost anybody can agree on. So there is a large amount of this space that doesn't have to be political and it's really for the good of the world, and so I think INTA is able to kind of focus on where we can have a positive impact. Some of the other things let that be out on the edges.
Speaker 4:Let's focus on where we can make a positive difference, and I actually feel really good about that.
Speaker 2:I might be inferring it. I noticed walking around here, looking at some of the paperwork and the banners and things, the letter CSR starting to reappear. I feel like I hadn't seen that for a few years, but that, in the end, is perfectly acceptable. I think corporate social responsibility was always a really good way of putting it actually. Um, so it's good, good to see that yeah, absolutely I was gonna ask actually.
Speaker 2:So, as you said, this is one of the kind of pinnacle moments in your, in your presidency. How many times you're on stage, how much talking are you doing? Are you just on show non-stop now, or what?
Speaker 4:uh, so so the meeting officially kicked off. Friday morning we had a wonderful signing of a memorandum of understanding with the danish patent and Trademark Office, so that was a great way, and that's. You have some informal conversations, but you still need to be prepared. You know there's remarks for that. Then you know, I was just on stage right before I met with you. We have the in-house practitioners committee, so I was fortunate to be asked to give the welcoming remarks being in-house.
Speaker 4:You know that was really exciting to look out into the audience of a few hundred of your closest friends. I gave opening remarks at one of the annual meeting receptions when we were in Brussels, and this is where I'd like to give a little shout out to the ITA staff. They do help me. You know. These are remarks that you could start with and then I can make them my own. So you know, that's actually really helpful. But the big event is this afternoon, the opening ceremonies at 4.30, where the co-chairs will go on first and give a preview of the amazing week ahead. Then I'll go on and give my remarks, which you have actually heard some of the themes right here. If you're able to attend, I hope you can join us because, I think it's very inspiring those first few ceremonies.
Speaker 4:I don't know. The podcast will go out long after you've done your welcoming speech, so we're breaking no walls here.
Speaker 1:Great.
Speaker 4:And then I think I have at least three more opening remarks that I'm giving. I'm doing two more interviews after this throughout the week. But honestly, you get into sort of this zone and it's really exciting. You want to communicate the things that you're enthusiastic about. So I don't find it a chore.
Speaker 1:I find you know you come across as really enthusiastic.
Speaker 2:I think people you know, when you see anybody in the position of leadership, you kind of think, oh, they were born to this and they know, they've always done this since they were three no, because of course you know you're going to. So it sounds like you you're not going to kind of go and curl up, curl up in the ball at the end of the day. No, no, I'd be doing.
Speaker 4:Well, I guess you know I was the English major. I love words, I love language. You know, I find this just really fun and enjoyable. And I wouldn't say, you know, I've been doing this now 25 years. When I was 23, I probably would have been able to come in here and talk to you. I would have been a little more nervous, but a few years later you get a little more practice, yeah so we're coming towards time.
Speaker 1:Can we close on? I've got a really good question I really want to ask a question.
Speaker 2:You do that first thing. Yes, okay, you should have kicked me under the table. You know both our legs are too short anyway. Well, that's giving a bit away now, anyway. Um, that's why don't do a video, because it's how short my legs are. English literature let's talk about that for a minute. We know what we're doing. My son actually did a degree in English literature as well, and I got to A levels. I did that kind of thing and I loved it. Do you keep in touch with it? Do you still love reading? Do you? Can you still read, because sometimes people hate either. You've got no time. Are you still enjoying the rest of the world?
Speaker 4:Actually, this is a super question because I did find that for a while I had to move away from novels and long books and I was reading the New Yorker, for example, like shorter bites of things that you could process, because during COVID things just got a bit overwhelming. But then I did consciously make a move back to reading. I just finished Pillars of the Earth, which is Ken Follett, which is all about building the cathedrals in the UK. I think it was in the 1200s.
Speaker 4:That was fascinating. I'm reading Pachinko right now, which is a four-generation story about Korean-Japanese families, so I do love to read and I think it's really important, even though we're very tired. It just opens up a whole different world. That's very creative and I think you know copyright is a big, important part of our practices, and so I feel like it's a great way to still kind of pay homage to you know, the IP field. But yeah, enjoy yourself too. So I do still love reading.
Speaker 2:And who were you when you were doing your actual degree? Yeah, where were your focuses?
Speaker 4:So I had both American and English literature focus. So Wordsworth, Byron, those were some of my favorites.
Speaker 2:And then I took.
Speaker 4:I really loved Faulkner, Fitzgerald and Hemingway.
Speaker 2:Those were probably some of my wordsworth versus Hemingway and Byron in there diverse range, though really diverse, and that's the best thing you know about an English degree is it's truly diverse.
Speaker 4:I don't know. Maybe, maybe I should have pursued an English literature professor path, but I'm pretty happy with the way things ended up so I wanted to ask about the patent track, if that's okay, because obviously, gwilym and I are here from the Chartered Digital.
Speaker 1:Patent Attorneys but we always stress that our members do patents, trade works, designs, copyright, trade secrets a lot, but we're quite excited about patents making a formal sort of appearance at INTA.
Speaker 4:Tell us a bit about that yes, and that also ties back to the strategic plan where over the years, we've moved the plan. Two cycles ago referred to trademarks, the current plan refers to brands and now the new plan refers to intellectual property, and that's very deliberate. We're looking at IP in a holistic view, but it also opens the door to figure out how INTA can help its members with respect to patents, and there's many different reasons for that. For example, at my company, I'm sitting around a table with almost all other patent professionals and I need to be versed and informed in at least the fundamentals of patents. So I'm super excited that INTA is offering this to their members. We're starting with education and information and helping arm our brand professionals to understand a bit of the basics of patents and then from there we'll see where does inta go with patents.
Speaker 4:We're not ready yet to issue policy statements to be advocating on the patent package in brussels, you know, but, but that is something that we know is of great interest to our companies, and so I agree, I think getting a little more formal about it is exciting. Are you able to attend any of the programming?
Speaker 1:I'm hoping to try and get on to some of it, but some of it clashes with podcasting. That's what we're here to do. I mean, I would say, when you feel you're ready to start thinking about the policy stuff, reach out to us. Fantastic, because we're always looking for any organisation that can amplify what we're saying.
Speaker 2:We also like to feed into what you guys are doing great.
Speaker 4:That sounds like a great opportunity.
Speaker 2:I was quite excited. Actually, my eyes have just lit up.
Speaker 4:You mentioned that you continue as immediate past president, so I will do the same. So next year I'm immediate past president and then I serve on the board for two more years, so I'll be around.
Speaker 2:There's a nice kind of continuous cycle between this and maybe I'll have a job. I'm permanently around. I can't get rid of him Can't get rid of him.
Speaker 1:Can't get rid of him, can't get rid of him, Can't get rid of him. So, Elizabeth, we're coming near the end and our final question is always the same, and that's are you sitting there thinking, phew, they didn't ask me that, so is there any question? You dreaded being asked. That hasn.
Speaker 4:Not dreading, actually, because having listened to your podcast, I felt like even if you asked me a really hard question, you would at least be understanding as I fumbled through it. No, I guess I would say I really appreciate the opportunity to get to speak to you in this setting. I think I personally do a little better in these settings versus, you know, a really formal interview.
Speaker 2:So it allows us to have a more real conversation.
Speaker 4:No, I guess I would love to encourage you to embrace this week. It's an amazing week. It is truly the biggest IP event of the year. The energy here I'm not sure you'll find elsewhere. And I hope you also leave feeling super excited.
Speaker 1:Oh, I know we will. Yeah, we did. We got energized at Atlanta last year, which is why we're back. Good time out of an amazingly busy schedule to share your thoughts on the podcast it was really my pleasure thank you so much. Outro Music Thank you.