Building A Podcast Theme Tune

This episode has been pulled from the archive of the 2025 Pubcast which, thanks to the help of AI, has been salavaged into something listenable!

Theme music is a vital part of every podcast you listen to every single week, so it has to do more than fill silence! Lee and Gwilym sit down with Gwilym's son, Billy Roberts - the person behind our intro, and ask him to show us how it’s actually made.

We get into the real craft of DIY music production in Logic Pro and GarageBand: layering multiple guitar takes, stacking piano and string parts, using MIDI instruments that sound surprisingly “real,” and shaping harmony. The conversation returns to what we can’t ignore on an intellectual property podcast: copyright and licensing for commissioned music. If someone makes your podcast theme tune, who owns it, what rights are implied, and what happens when a friendly favor turns into something valuable? 

If you care about podcast branding, original intro music, music production workflow, and the IP basics that protect creators and hosts, you’ll get a lot out of this one.

Transcript

Cold Open And Studio Banter

SPEAKER_05 0:02

You know, as you tell me, it's fine as the SRL.

SPEAKER_10 0:05

Um Liango. That's funny.

SPEAKER_06 0:10

But two on top of each other, you can't tell it evens itself up because it's on shop.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

The meets in the middle are I'm in fire. No, I know, that's embarrassing.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Lee Davis and Willem Roberts are the two IPs in a pod, and you are listening to a podcast on intellectual property brought to you by the Chartered Institute of Pattern Attorney.

SPEAKER_07 0:41

Grinnell, last one. Last podcast of the day. You're right. I asked you if you were flagging earlier, so you've you've got your fund after a while.

SPEAKER_08 0:49

Yeah, fun facing the window on this beautiful sunny day in central London.

SPEAKER_06 0:52

I thought it was just because this is the coolest uh it is podcast we've ever done. And I I I I feel quite cool as well. But if we didn't know what a cool podcast, I got our bands. We we ran out of the streets. We didn't my my bands expired. I do know somebody who's got a half-track. Oh. And I've seen Harry got it, and you said with his half-track transporter, of course.

SPEAKER_07 1:11

Which I thought was what I got answer. So I took entirely the world on course, and but if he's a half-track, I thought you were talking about recording music. No, no, no, sort of eight-track, four-track, that sort of thing. Um but that might be another segue.

SPEAKER_08 1:24

Oh John. You were a bit slow there, weren't you? You were just a little bit slowly. How you can do it, how you can do it. Segui. Half-track. Yeah, I know, but how you can do it, don't do your segue. I've just done it. Oh right! Alright, segueed us out of the segue. That's it true.

SPEAKER_07 1:46

Yeah, so if if a if an eight-track is uh is an old full recording, yes, then a half-track would be a four-track, and I don't know what you would call recording in the digital age because I'm just not there. Fortunately, I understand you have someone on the podcast who can talk to us about digital recording. Can I dig into that from?

SPEAKER_04 2:01

You can have pushed out with him James Roberts. Aye. I and then Billy. Uh, and also my boy. That's quite nice. I'm very kindly theme true together. Quite a long time again now.

SPEAKER_07 2:12

I get so much positive feedback with the theme chain as well. No, no, you've never talked about that. Yeah, all people are in Canada last week. Oh, really? Yeah, two or three kind of oh yeah. Where did you get your theme tuning from? Oh, cool.

Meet Billy And His Setup

SPEAKER_07 2:24

Yeah, so yeah. No, no, no. Tell us about yourself, what you're up to, who are you?

SPEAKER_06 2:28

I know who you are. Totally, yeah. I don't know who you are. Surprise me.

SPEAKER_07 2:32

I I I do know that you're not the son who wants to be a quantity survivor.

SPEAKER_06 2:36

Correct. No, that's my younger brother. I'm Billy, I'm the son who wants to be a writer slash journalist and try and also part to go involved in it. But I also love doing music just kind of for fun. I do lots of gigs and stuff. Just new divide friends, birthday parts, and things, but gives you massive joy. As does doing stuff on Loge Pro, which is a kind of consumer-friendly music writing software. Yeah. So you can like put in loads of MIDI instruments. So that is surprisingly effective sounding streams and stuff, like coming with sound like agile streams, I'm just trying that. That was just me on my keyboard. Okay. Plugged in. Um, but dad wanted me to um uh do a couple of podcasts. This is actually your second one. I want you one in the V Lava Wombles, which you did a brilliant job on. Yeah, Ankin Rude. Indeed. Yeah. Um this one, my remit was it's got to be a mix of orchestral and punk. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 3:40

So I'm a bit concerned that wherever the wombles podcast was where you've got Mike Bat breathing down your net. And and here it could be John Leiden, uh, who's after us.

SPEAKER_06 3:49

Yeah, well, I guess people have heard how we uh how it sounds this. You played the guitar, voila, didn't you? Yeah, I think so. I played can I guess lots of horns going on as well. I think he probably couldn't sue me on it, because the vibes are stolen, but the actual chords or melody borrowed, I think, are the words that we used, Ivan Stolen. Yeah, yeah, it's not a weird. Yeah, paid tribute to influence by, influenced by. Yeah, I did have a thought as well when you were talking about um doing eight podcasts on the London Eye. You go two IVs in a pod. IVs, I've put it from you wanted to. Yeah, I've got made it.

SPEAKER_07 4:30

Why are you that's just far too clever for me?

Punk Into Orchestra Concept

SPEAKER_07 4:36

Sorry.

SPEAKER_06 4:38

So, do you want me to tell you through what dad actually asked me to do? Yeah, yeah, it's uh it's uh yeah, it'd be greater actually understand where I'm a little cheaper than though. I heard this dad, Dad wanting punk and he wanted orchestra. So I thought it'd be easier to turn punk into orchestra, one the other way around. So I thought kind of your punky thing is a lot of chords moving quite fast on a guitar with bit changes. Things like London calling, that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then that punky line. So fully stole that. So I went, spent a while doing round, and I plugged this into it and just kind of stuck, played up my guitar and plugged it in. So that I just blew around and round, and that was the kind of fast, kind of electric y rocky guitar thing going. Yeah. And then I trapped some more guitars on it. This one, the actual name's called Razorface. Um, which I think makes a bit more intense. Jump that on top of it. So those are different? Yeah, they're two traps on top of each other. Oh, so put them together? So I tried. This is number one.

SPEAKER_09 5:51

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:55

That was a remote to the other one. Yeah. And so, got that together, and then that was a set of chords being chopped together. Um, do you know chords and melodies, how they bake? I am musically in that. Cool. Um, chords are like the colour in the background, and the melody is like the actual thing you see in life.

SPEAKER_07 6:15

I've had so many people talk about try to explain music to me, but they're never about stable lights and it's not anonym. I nearly got you singing in the bang of so do you remember?

SPEAKER_04 6:24

I can sing. I can sing. I mean, isn't your voice in this one?

SPEAKER_06 6:27

Or is it just so I wanted a big starter that was kind of orchestral? So I did the same calls that made him kind of piano-y, so kind of teaking outs chop on each other. And saying calls. Yeah. Okay. And then said he's the strings. So you have calls for it, in it. So can you play the strings now? Because that's two things together. So yeah, each of these is it. I love this because they're all different tracks.

Layering Guitars, Strings, And Vocals

SPEAKER_06 6:55

So strings not sound like this. So the first one.

SPEAKER_05 7:09

And then some big guitar. Then the side go for a solo.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

I could cover play the shaker. Let's take a look at it.

SPEAKER_06 7:37

Sounds terrible. So let's talk a sit off. And then it's also oh wow, sorry. I um didn't have it add-on youth. Oh.

SPEAKER_05 7:58

This one should run it out. So we get a little intensity. Smells an end right.

SPEAKER_06 8:15

So people again ground out of the different components got together. So can you just play the bass line there? So there's all these other things going off, I love. Yes, so this won't come soon. So that's all. I love the way it all sits on top of itself. And I'm sitting on the side that is about 50 tracks, so as well. Sorry, carrying. And sput, and then a few chuck.

SPEAKER_05 8:46

Guitar on top of it. The one that has the eight side is the lead over the top drum such and then I I'm not very good at singing, so I go for quantity.

SPEAKER_06 9:21

Let's just fill the vocal up for a minute though. Nothing else, just the vocals, because it's interesting how this fits together.

SPEAKER_05 9:43

So you see these nice over.

SPEAKER_09 9:47

Then two peas in a two-like.

SPEAKER_06 10:04

Just do it from the harm of the harmony you go from number eight then to number one there. Okay. For the opposite? Okay, I think it's quite interesting. Is that two? No, that's it. I think it's easier.

SPEAKER_05 10:53

There's another one, which I do use over very bigly because it's got my dad going Lian William. And he don't think.

SPEAKER_10 10:59

There's also days in there.

SPEAKER_05 11:00

I've heard that before.

SPEAKER_07 11:01

I had to go back. Yeah, I've had that armor. Very badly. Yeah, he did tell Sawy song that.

SPEAKER_10 11:07

Lian William.

SPEAKER_06 11:08

Try to get the right moment to put it in. Oh yeah. No, no, that looks I can be I'm recording you doing about five or six times to give on as much of equal as I could. Oh loads. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 11:21

So that's I find that great story. I wouldn't even know where to start. Um well

GarageBand, Logic Pro, And Accessibility

SPEAKER_07 11:27

Billy's used to do it on GarageFan, didn't you?

SPEAKER_06 11:29

On the old iPad, something called Garage Bap, and it was it's much simpler than this.

SPEAKER_07 11:34

But I remember you could do things with a bit with cat can you do this because you can play? Is it sort of right?

SPEAKER_06 11:42

Yeah, but not actually that much, because you can like slow it way down for all the MIDI stuff. You play it really slowly, and then you can like tweak it around. You don't need to be like, I'm not technically like mad a piano. Um I always gonna tweak it and it'll sort things out for you. So it's very it's quite accessible for zombie to kind of know vaguely how things work.

SPEAKER_07 12:02

And at the moment, it's his new and a bit of kick. Probably no AI in there. No AI. That's calming though, isn't it? Big Baby.

SPEAKER_06 12:11

Yeah, it would help us. I think. Just like small things, like you just say, like, you know how I want you to kind of clean off all of these kind of wobbly bits, man.

SPEAKER_05 12:20

Or make it sound a bit more like something or yeah, and theory, although that would stress me out. I don't I don't mind the idea of like, you know it's like make it sound a little bit more like Jules Holland. I don't want I don't want AI to make it better. I love it, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_06 12:39

I feel use of although I did realise that I've got the Willem Honor, and I realize I could also do some weird soul.

SPEAKER_05 13:11

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 13:12

Exactly, we don't hear this. Yeah, make the bad as you can go on and show you.

SPEAKER_10 13:27

That's funny.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

Liangar!

SPEAKER_01 13:36

The meets in the middle, I'm pretty sorry. I know, I know, that's embarrassing.

SPEAKER_05 13:40

Right. Oh like so much.

SPEAKER_07 13:43

Just one evening of just So I'll I'll say how long does that take? How much effort is that? For no reward.

SPEAKER_06 13:49

Two hours, maybe? Okay, so you think so. Okay, that's fine. Yeah, they're sending a ball of whispers, just saying.

SPEAKER_03 13:56

You should think some more.

AI Help Versus Human Taste

SPEAKER_03 14:01

Yeah, okay. I'm I'm thinking this, uh, angry at this for Inter.

SPEAKER_08 14:04

Oh, that's oh, an inter special.

SPEAKER_06 14:07

Yeah, we've got a question for you. About why you will feel and fears and wine. That sounds like yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 14:13

I think it's so we're on a IP podcast, yes. I'm never gonna ask a question. I'm imagining that the filly you can't answer. Uh where does the RP reside in our podcast tune? Because it's Ellie's creation. Yeah. So Jimmy owns it, yeah, in that sense.

SPEAKER_06 14:30

Yeah, yeah. Who's I th I I don't know, I didn't have the first clue about popular law, there's a the thing about commissioning. Isn't it funny how Yeah, but we have no agreement, didn't we? We're gonna I need to do that. I see it's all the other stuff clean up like everything else. It's for when things break down. This is kind of this is kind of biddy gift to society at the moment, can't be able to, but obviously society wants to pay what um if we uh if we abuse it, then you should come get us on I don't

Who Owns The Theme Tune

SPEAKER_06 14:56

know whose side I'm off in those circumstances. Does it be some of these songs uh this one's mostly just me, but some of them is usually you can use all the apple libs and things. If you use enough of them, does that change as to No?

SPEAKER_03 15:08

I'm really worried about your prison.

SPEAKER_04 15:11

I suspect they give they probably expect that to happen. Yeah, but they must do.

SPEAKER_06 15:15

No, and if it happens in a big song that goes virals, I guess I'll money. I don't know, there'll be something in that people click on saying I agree in bold straight through.

SPEAKER_03 15:25

Yeah, it'd be there'd be something like that right now.

SPEAKER_06 15:27

Yeah, yeah. That call progression, you're quite you're always good at spotting where thought progressions have been elsewhere. Is that a fairly unusual chord progression that you didn't? Yeah, I don't think I don't remember another song I've noted from. Why isn't it? Um so C major, G major, A flat, E flat, B flat, F. Reef. Okay. It's kind of weird. It's fast chords, fast chords. Yeah, yeah. But I sadly goes the Arbor podcast. I stole the chords from um You didn't steal them. Does she rotely made?

unknown 16:01

No.

SPEAKER_06 16:01

Oh, Jean says, D. Oh that on here. Thank you very much for that, Lil. I wanted to just because I think it I love watching this thing coming together, watching all the different bits and threads and suddenly adding up to something.

SPEAKER_07 16:12

So so for me, so I'm I'm now back in Colin's bedroom. Uh so Colin was the guitarist in the band that I was in when I was like 5th Rand 16. Yeah, I I sang I and he would he would sit there and try and teach me chord progressions on the guitar and stuff like that and get massively frustrated. And then uh kind of four-hour bassists would come in and eventually go into this redeemy underground cellar in Portsmouth to add cushions and newspapers plastered to the walls to try and give us some kind of soundproofing. He'd have our drum ring now. Yeah, and it all come together in some kind of thing that sound be a bit like me, Vic. Yeah, but all I had to do was the same thing. Yeah, me do it. And I had no concept of how the various different things that they did come together to make the music dick. I don't think I still do. Um

Band Nostalgia And Closing Prompts

SPEAKER_07 16:58

but what I find extraordinary is that you can do it like all you are.

SPEAKER_06 17:02

Yeah, you don't need a band anymore, and you can just get this at like only it cost a tiny bit of money. Plugging your key towards, chicken history can do all of them. They sound real. Like that sounds like an actual grant kit. Yeah. It was also good fun when we did the the gates various bits and pieces. The more we did, the more everyone knew what their job was within it. And you didn't really know what other people were doing almost. You know, I'd be about your bit. Uh I just keep going. Isn't it the drums? My main thing. I know, like he's even though I'm not allowed to drum anywhere near you. Was it you? I'm a little laggy, aren't they? What? No, the tambourines are like that's close. You know, it's never a tambourine, but I'm laggy.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

It's a everything you tap.

SPEAKER_06 17:39

Oh I know. I've drop a baring drum. But that's two five, we've been loads of bands to go, haven't we? Oh, yes, some great names. So you put the draco piece, so what? Of course. Um spontaneous combustion. But it's having a lot. Yeah. Barry Drift Printet. Great name, fellas good. Only was never allowed five people in it. Darth Vaderhosen was recently.

SPEAKER_04 18:00

Yeah, that was uh Darth Vaderhosen. What are you gonna do with band names? It never we might as well go silly, uh, and probably quite a few more hot on in that show.

SPEAKER_06 18:10

Oh, there are reasons. I mean, I was in that terrible name B Shark voice. B Shaw Boys and Henry. That was probably come on, I was in the genius head.

SPEAKER_07 18:19

Wow. Wow. As pretentious as we get.

SPEAKER_04 18:29

Yeah, a little bit of the magic. Can you come up with a closer? Closing question? Oh my lord, I'm I'm not gonna think I've actually been just focusing on busy. So Lee, yeah. If you were to write a song, what would it be about?

SPEAKER_07 18:43

What would oh so I know I can't now go back to the song you know that I've talked about previously. So the very first original song I band did, which was called Father's Incident. It was um it was about uh our observations from the top of the bus of some guy who always used to see Walkman's work anyway. Uh so it sort of really couldn't be out loud. I'd like to do a song about um Elbert Fortis. Oh probably something slow and steady and yeah. Maybe bullying the dog and destroying the dandelions, and probably because the one thing I've learned about tortoise is if you drop any meat in there, it will find it, even the Insta meat. Oh really? Yeah, so there would be a little kind of undertone in there, a bit sort of trying to break away from its inherent vegetarianity.

SPEAKER_08 19:27

It's been a kind of kinks him slower story saying uh seek him there.

SPEAKER_07 19:35

Yeah, his shell is far.

SPEAKER_04 19:37

His meat is rare.

SPEAKER_05 19:41

Legs were made for breaking good.

SPEAKER_06 19:45

Um that's a song project.

SPEAKER_05 19:48

Um, I am actually uh writing a song for my mate to go down the aisle to.

SPEAKER_07 19:53

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_06 19:53

That's lovely.

SPEAKER_05 19:54

You can't get that out of here, is it? No, no, I need to do that.

SPEAKER_07 19:57

Is it is it Copper Cod normal going down the aisle music, a tape on, or is it really kind of contemporary?

SPEAKER_06 20:03

Uh it'll be piano. There'll be a few pianos trapped on top of each other, I can affect. If I'm feeling fancy merry since I'm stacking out from John or something.

SPEAKER_07 20:11

Exactly. So come on then, you what you what you got in your pocket.

SPEAKER_04 20:17

I actually um I wanna write a song about a s a completely unexciting day, as in a date. I want to like what there's the 20 part of the 20th of G. I wanna write a song called 25th of June. Okay. Because it'll get played every 25th of June, ever played it'd be like Christmas, like it's original something, mate.

SPEAKER_07 20:36

There's a minute. So 25th of June is to date famously the it broke uh set for the conclusion of its uh um concentration to first tick and clients. So there you go. There's my lyrics or mirror.

SPEAKER_06 20:51

Things that happened on the 20th of June, you're looking at 1st 5th of June though, was in Discuss of the Korean War. But oh it was like displayed, black death play about in England. How does it have that? The French Armistice of Nazi Germany. It's not a good date.

SPEAKER_07 21:06

I wonder Oh, and you stick and you stitch all the back together to conclude. It breaks phonetic time first day of the uh thank you so much. But more importantly, thank you for what I listen to a lot of podcasts, yeah. And they've all got this kind of like generic sort of music that come being in and stuff. And every time I hear ours, it's sort of like that's quite called, isn't it? So thank you so much for that. Are you saying thank you for the music? Um sorry thank you for the music. Thank you, Billy. Uh thank you so much, Bess. Thank you for working with me today on the uh podcast that we've done. Uh thank you, the listener, uh the single listener, because we know who you are, we know where you are, and if you don't need a reviewer about this podcast, I'm coming together.