Two IPs In A Pod
Brilliant inventions, fresh product designs, iconic brand names and artistic creativity are not only the building blocks of successful business - they deliver a better world for us all. But these valuable forms of intellectual property must be protected in order to flourish. We are the Chartered Institute of Patent Attorneys - the UK's largest intellectual property organisation. Our hosts Lee Davies and Gwilym Roberts chat with entrepreneurs, creatives, patent attorneys and the occasional judge about how patents, trade marks, designs and copyright can improve our lives and solve problems for humanity.
Two IPs In A Pod
CIPA Elections
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Listen to our special CIPA Elections Podcast, featuring Gwilym Roberts and Debbie Slater, as they introduce themselves as prospective Presidents for 2028.
Hosted by Lee Davies, CIPA Chief Executive, the podcast gives members the opportunity to hear directly from Gwilym and Debbie about their experience within CIPA and the wider profession, their priorities, and their perspectives on the future of the Institute.
Welcome And Election Setup
SPEAKER_00Lee Davis and Willem Roberts are the two IPs in a pod, and you will listen to a podcast on intellectual property brought to you by the Chatham Institute of Patent Attorneys.
SPEAKER_04Well, hello everybody, and welcome to this uh special webinar when we get the opportunity to have a quick conversation with uh your two candidates standing for President 2028. So, therefore, to also serve as vice president in 2027. And uh this is our second contested presidential election in succession. And we thought this time round it would be quite nice to give members the opportunity not just to read written statements, but also hear from the from the two candidates. And first up, I've got with me Debbie Slater. Hi Debbie, welcome.
SPEAKER_02Hello there.
SPEAKER_04Uh so you know you you're uh old hands, that's a record maybe. You're experienced in the world of webinars. So uh but but straight up probably feels a little bit different. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Depends on what you're talking about, depends who you're talking to. Yeah, yeah, no.
SPEAKER_04It's not I'm gonna be I'm gonna be very gentle.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04And I've just got sort of three questions to work through, but if you say anything really um intriguing or interesting, I might tease some some other information out of you. I thought it would be quite nice to start by setting the scene. So, I mean, many people will know there will be people uh listening in who perhaps aren't familiar with you and your work. Tell us a little bit about your background, uh what you did before you got into IP, how you got into IP, what you're
Debbie Slater’s IP Origin Story
SPEAKER_04doing now.
SPEAKER_02Right, maybe. Um, how long have you gone?
SPEAKER_04You've got four minutes in this question.
SPEAKER_02I'm 64. Um, and I've been in the IP business for I wrote just over 43 years. 1983 I started, um almost straight out of university. So I graduated in in 82 with a physics degree from Leeds, and I was gonna be a teacher. You need this story, this would be tough for seduced by this job that was advertised to 1982, the milk round, jobs on the on the notice board. Yeah. Um, and it was this job that was um do you have you will you have a science degree? Can you speak a language other than English, particularly French and German? Um, would you like to live abroad? Well, I just thought, gosh, this ticks all the boxes. I'd lived in Germany as a as a teenager, and and it was for this job at this outfit called the European Patent Office, and I had absolutely no idea about patents, no idea about intellectual property, but I lied.
SPEAKER_04So you started off on the other side of the fence. Is it poker turned gamekeeper or game keeper turned poker?
SPEAKER_02Which way maybe is that quite sure it depends on which side you come from, I suppose. But um, you know, I was one of that very early cohort of parents examiners, they were recruiting like Billio, and there was a whole heap of people from different countries, and it's great, and but that was my exposure to intellectual property, and um here here I still am, although I've diverted over time. But I think about three and a half, four years, and then I realised that wasn't a gig you know for long term. So I I moved back to the UK and I became um an in-house property manager. Obviously, I wasn't peddled to turn you at that point. Um, in-house turn an in-house manager for PLC, a publicly listed engineering company, which actually doesn't exist anymore, but managing the group IP portfolio, very diverse range of companies, Rolls Royce motor cars, people printing machines, engines, healthcare, all sorts of things. And my job was to literally manage the IP for the whole of the group. And it was um fantastic exposure to strategic use of intellectual property. Businesses used it. Um I used to, you know, obviously lays with external print churn firms, and so I got to learn to churn is deed. And I I just thought you were seduced. I was seduced. Um I was gonna say it's actually Paul Cole who finally got me into the profession. So you seduce me because I can't let it can't be sitting in the Palm City of York just down the road here, and we had um he was a beer and I was a glass of wine, and I said, I'm thinking of becoming a patent attorney. And he said, Well, if you are, um he was at Beresford's with Keith Beresford at that point, and he said, We're looking for our first TA, technical assistant. And so I made the job, and I I yeah, I I didn't. So that was me, you know, going down to being you've got you've got stayed in one place, have you? So I've been in-house, so I I I trained initially in private practice and then moved to Nokia mobile phones, so back into industry. Um, so I've worked in industry, Nokia mobile phones being the obvious one, um, and and other in-house firms, but I've also been in private practice and in 2000 we emigrated to Australia. So I and this is the great thing about this profession, it is so flexible. It you know, you can pick yourself up and move yourself to the other side of the world and still still get a job and still working in. So I yeah, I've been in Australia, I was in Australia until like 14 years. Did a bit of IP management consulting as well as as working as a publish attorney. Came back in 2012, about four years, working in this again, then back to Australia for another couple of years, and then back here in 2019.
SPEAKER_04Um you stuck around this time.
SPEAKER_02I'm I stuck around, yes. You know, I I say this particularly to I you know, I speak at the student conference, um, and I say this to to students, you know, it's a wonderful profession for flexibility and being able to follow what suits you at a particular point in time. And I've always been a great believer that if an opportunity presents itself.
SPEAKER_04Let's move on to the sort of second phase of the questions for me.
Volunteering And Education Work At CIPA
SPEAKER_04So you touched there on the work that you've done at a student conference. Uh so let's talk about your role as a volunteer in Sea Call. One of the one of the things that always um quite aware of is this is the volunteer effort. There we have it. Um and all members give their time to sort of freely and willingly and contribute so much. Tell us a little bit about um how you involved with C.
SPEAKER_02My first engagement with CEPA was when I was a student, so I was like in the late 80s. Um, and and I suggested that we have a group for um women attorneys to get together, which um caused a bit of a stir in the journey.
SPEAKER_04I can't I can imagine um uh one of our council members is asked doing some research around the earliest women in CEPA. So yeah, I've been reading the transactions and I and I can imagine only imagine the reaction.
SPEAKER_02You know, I thought I I really want to get involved with the institute because I could see, you know, the sort of thing that was being done. So I'd came with the teachers separately, so I'd done that and um and I'd got a couple of qualifications in higher and second degree education, and um the education committee were looking for people um to to sort of help out. So I volunteered for the committee and then uh um launched the new paralegal course and the the introductory course of that. So I my hand up to help with that, and I got very heavily coughed in that. Hello, hello my life's work. So I was very much part of and what I call the the the C performly, and and you talk about finding your tribe, and I think you know that so since then I've been involved primarily around education, um, so paralegal courses, um, and and working on the education committee, doing a variety of different whatever comes up at the time. Um I'm now chair of the education uh committee, um, which I challenging at times, um obviously with the education review coming along at the moment. Um, and a variety of things. I mean, again, the advanced paralegal course of course is is now in its second year, so that's and up for an award. Um, you know, I just I just enjoy doing this, and and obviously I'm on council.
SPEAKER_04We we have a we have a lovely little crossover on the kind of teacher site is up there. Anyway, we're braving to talk a slightly different language, yeah.
SPEAKER_02My education skills and my tiny skills in when I started training, you know, it was not difficult. We went through an education change in terms of the qualification system when I was doing it. Um, so I understand a lot of the frustrations and the difficulty for for people getting into the profession. So I I think it's incumbent on those of us who've been around. I do some mentoring for um some early stage career um female patent attorneys. And again, it's about you know sisterhood and bringing everybody sporting them through that profession because it is it is a great profession.
SPEAKER_04Amazing. So let's um let's parachute you into the future, shall we?
A Presidency Agenda Built On Training
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_04So um AGM in November we announce the results. You find yourself in the position where you're gonna be president in 28. Uh, and we always like our presidents to come into the role with an agenda of some sorts, uh, you know, how they're gonna change the world. What what does what does the patent attorney profession look like differently uh in their year in office? So this this is your pitch to the members. What what are you gonna do?
SPEAKER_02Well it will come to no surprise um that that my focus will be on education. Um it's as I say, I've already said something I'm passionate about. Um and we've got who's who's coming into the presidency next year, who is also focusing on on education. So this would be an opportunity for me to be not continuity candidate percent now. Obviously, we're in a tremendous time potentially of change on the education front. Qualification front. They're in the middle of that, as you know. Um, so there's a lot of stuff is up in the air, but I I I would imagine there will be some changes in terms of you know how we look at training and qualification going forward. And of course, we've had the EQEs change as well. So we're in we're in a period of change. I mean, we've also got two initiatives going at the moment the patent scientist apprenticeship and the paralegal apprenticeship plus the paralegal courses. So there's a lot of things going on education-wise, and I've spent the last 10, 15 years in CPA, you know, in education. So for me, it's about moving us forward, but in a state, you know, trying to do it in a way that's without too much um depending on you know, it means they need to know, they need to be able to plan. And so for me, it's about it would be about maintaining that focus on education, helping the profession navigate the challenges that I believe we've got and we can have a good relationship with it, but again being able to negotiate that on on behalf of our members. Yeah, and for the new people coming through, they've got a degree of certainty, they know where their career potentially is going to make changes. Supporting, I mean, we're a membership organization, of course, supporting our members to be able to make sure that if we aren't going to make changes, it's not making changes for the changes' sake. So that it's going to be a benefit to the profession as a whole and also for the individuals.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I mean to say that I would spend all my time on education because you know, we're doing a lot of great stuff as an organization. Um, and certainly, you know, the work that that Bobby Mukagi did, for example, on engaging with in-house um and engaging with the membership more generally, I think is really, really important to maintain that, maintain that sort of process of engagement. Yeah. Years ago, I used to chair a community organisation. This is in when we're in Australia, um providing um maternity services, home birth provision for for women in Perth. And I chaired the organisation and and you know, stakeholders bringing them with you on a particular project is very important. Um, and and I think that's the sort of thing that we we need to do here as well. It's about bringing people, you know, with us on that journey and and improving improving things as as we go along.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, thanks. Yeah, so thanks. Yes, absolutely. I think I think you set out really well um what your presidency will look like. So I don't want you to leave here thinking you've not had the opportunity to say everything the emoji will say. So is there is there anything you want to I have got a killer closer question, so just stay from that.
SPEAKER_02I was thinking Lee normally has these throwaway questions on his webinars. I wonder what he's done his sleep.
SPEAKER_04I have nothing up my sleeve, it's something that's come out of our conversation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean we'll say is look, you know, I'm here. People people don't know me or are just getting to know me. Some people obviously do know me. And you know, thank you to all those who've who've helped me and supported me actually making the decision to stand. That's been very important to me. Um but I'm on I'm on LinkedIn and you know, people can find your suggestions or any suggestions about, you know, I'm open to questions, queries, thoughts, suggestions.
SPEAKER_04So that there you go, audience. Debbie is there for any questions you might have, and I have one.
SPEAKER_01Gone.
SPEAKER_04So it's it's a it's a very safe question, don't want to say I I I I I I wouldn't do what I do with the podcast and take take you into a kind of uh strange or unusual
Antenatal Teaching And Learning Beyond IP
SPEAKER_04place. So you've talked a lot about education. Yeah, yeah. I thought uh a novel way perhaps to for people to get to know you uh even better would be tell us about something strange or unusual you've learnt over the years, a course that you did, or something that furthered a hobby or something. So learning outside of your professional life.
SPEAKER_02So when particular I trained as an NCT anti-Natal teacher, for those of you who know the NCT. So um I became actually very involved with the NCT, trained as an anti-natal teacher, um and taught childbirth education as it was called in Australia for for many years. And that was yeah, that was not something I again I had ever anticipated. It's about supporting people at a particular point in their lives when things are going very different. So I live into a lot of rich child breath, you know, the anatomy and physiology, but also about the emotional changes that people go through, not just women but the the whole family, and how it enrich their lives. The OCT were super good at supporting pre-fact. And again, it's that music spirit. And I just say with super, yeah, you know, so um I'm a trained antenatal teacher.
SPEAKER_04I think I mean channel is I'm I never know where these uh conversations are gonna are going to go. So um, but it's not good to learn that about you. Thank you so much for uh spending like 15-20 minutes with me. I'm sure it's helped people understand uh uh what you bring to the presidency. Best of luck with the election.
SPEAKER_02Uh goodness, whatever happens. Um, I think this having this process is great for the organisation, great for membership to have two people to choose from.
SPEAKER_04You know, two two great people to choose from. This is the uh that's great, that's right.
SPEAKER_02Um's great.
SPEAKER_04We're just about to find him out, Gwynlabis. Of course, I've never met him before. Okay, like neither by, neither by this is that the clunky kind of like ask you to leave moment. There's the rooms are not best set for that. So uh and if you could tell Mr. Roberts I'm pointing me out.
SPEAKER_02Tell him to win his way.
SPEAKER_04Thank you.
Switching To Gwillam Roberts
SPEAKER_04Hello. That's a clever way to come in off camera like that. Just suddenly appear. Make yourself comfortable. Hello. I don't know if you listened into much of that. You kind of know what's going to happen now. No, I didn't. Uh no, no, no. You you wanted the surprise of opposite or not. Yeah. Uh this is unusual for us, isn't it? One to be sat in the same room in front of a microphone, but for me to be questioning this just feels a bit weird. No, uh so you should be. So you should be. Uh so welcome to the to the webinar. Uh interesting to have you as one of our two candidates for uh President 2028. I'll do exactly the same as I did with Debbie, so you kind of both have uh the same itch, really. So, first thing, again, Gwillam, a lot of people will know you, uh, but there will be some people who who will know you kind of through the podcast and stuff like that, or maybe not not know you at all. So think this as if we've never met and and tell us a bit about who he is, how you've got to be a panelie. Uh the life story in about five minutes.
SPEAKER_03Five minutes. Yeah, I'll okay, I'll sit with a professional stuff.
From Physics Graduate To Partner
SPEAKER_03Um so I have a physics degree uh and I entered the profession in 1990, so um a long time ago. As you say, how did I become everyone's got an interesting origin story? And I know you know mine from podcasts, but I basically went to the career service, showed them my student CV, and they said there's two really clear options for you here. One is to be a pattern's honey, and one is to be a salesman for a regional brewery. Uh thing I had the right choice, though, you know, English. Yeah, I still quite shaft. I don't quite know what buttons think pressed to come up with done, but yes. I'm joined in 1990 with uh the awesome Abel and Imry. Hello, Abel and proud actually that although I qualified him years on 30 lots years on, Julian Bardo trained me. I know he's retired now, but um I'm still grateful to him for his work on that. And we've got loads of friends at A and I. Um moved to Kilburnth Road, I think it's 1995. It's when my first son was born. So yeah, well, there we go. Um then yeah, I think I was thinking I was fully qualified then, although I had some issues passing which one was it? The drafting, really. Yeah, yeah. Um, so I've I was I I accepted in uh to a little while said and kindly said, obviously, I need to keep sticking it. So thanks, guys. Um yeah, that's like there's a wonderful phone uh and uh being partner and channel skin. So loving all that and still doing despite all that, still doing quite a lot with SEEP, which we'll come on to. Still doing tons of the day job.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_03Ideal world, I'd do office action responses every day for the rest of my life. Really?
SPEAKER_04Is that my float of boat?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_04I love it.
SPEAKER_03It's actually fun. I say it's um it's it's the same pleasure sensors as a sudoku, but you get paid for it. Basically, it's solving a complex problem. I was gonna say what what what is it? I just learning new technologies and how I got it here, but I just like solving the problem. And what's the point where you think I know what the amendment is, I'm gonna have a cup of tea, and then we'll get to get to what we're writing it down, and it's quite honest feeling. But unfortunately, I've got to do other stuff as well. Yeah, which has been good. Yeah, and one more thing, probably is yeah, really grappling with AI and you make forcing myself, despite my age, to use it to understand the changes it's bringing, which is scary stuff.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I'm also finding that it's it's forcing us to use it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's uh there's a kind of a link hook there, isn't there? So let's move on and talk a little bit about the work
A Career Of CIPA Service
SPEAKER_04Zika. I mean, you're your volunteering at CEPA predates me. I've been around 15 years, but you've been part of the firmament council and committees in all the time I've been here. So tell us a little bit about how you got into volunteering with CEPA and the kinds of things that you've done and what you're doing now.
SPEAKER_03So my my regret, first of all, that I didn't get involved with informals. Yeah, I was quite shy looking back, I think. And I didn't, they were some really cool. Oh, they were really cool. Informals are cool, they're all very cool people, and I just felt a bit scared of them all. So I didn't get I went to I went to the lectures, but then I was just a bit miserable. I went home. Um as soon as I could, I started tutoring, um, which was nerve-wracking. I just thought I'd know more than the people in tutoring. Yeah, yeah. Well that much. Always be one page ahead. One page ahead. Um so I got into that early kind of not sort of my comfort zone. Oh, I did the clinics as well as soon as I could, um, which were brilliant for teaching you how to describe the entire patent system in five minutes. It was really uh I got an absolute pattern doing that, which is fun. Um probably and I give a I can give away one because I think it was probably not perfectable, which was somebody who said can do the advertising of bank notes. It's a fun one, anyway. I don't think anyone patented that. It's probably gonna happen. It'll be right in turning out these days. Um then moves on to lecturing. Um I did the informal lectures on various things. Um I'm the first person ever to have used PowerPoint at CPA. Because um well because nobody ever done it. They said what are you doing? Well I brought in the projector and nobody knew what it was. Um and I I I kind of put projector to one side and put it there, and then the next time I did the lecture, they said, um but they said um are you gonna do it again? I said, Yeah, have you got all the stuff? And they said, Yeah, and we got there, and they had literally nothing because I don't think it worked out. I brought a projector, so all CP provided for that was a wall, which is the which they keep, so I had to do that one from the notes. But um, I did that, I did the introductory lecture for a long time. Um, and that got me into some other lecturing. Um, and uh around then I did the drafting books, mostly because I failed her so many times. But I was only passed, I'd really thought about it, so I thought I'd share that. Um Queen Mary as well. Um ended up um I've lectured loads and loads of people on drafting on the Queen Mary course. Uh and all they ever remember, some really good stuff in that lecture. All anyone remembers is that it's about a cheese grater, but there is some good stuff in there as well, um, I think. Um, and yeah, with Queen Mary, I'm I'm quite to see for a minute. It was all tied together at the time, really. Yeah, yeah. Um, and then um, yeah, became an honorary professor, an honorary visiting professor, I think, at Queen Mary, which I'm very proud of. Um then I think one of the lectures, someone came up to us and said, I did one in front of the patent office, and they said, Did I want to get involved with PPWG, the Patent Practice Working Group? Um, that I got involved, which has now got another name. I did that for a few years and then moved on. Um, but I moved on to Pat Patents Committee as a result of that. And I've been on the Patents Committee kind of forever. These days I've got a long because we can do all my through it's a good thing. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Um, and then I think I got onto Council, kept doing things. Um, and then obviously very exciting that you got um invited to be on the secretary. Did you know when? I don't know when. I think uh you want you sit here. Yeah, thank you very much, Robin. The only way I can do it is by counting presidents. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um I've absolutely loved that, as you know. Uh it's been a really interesting role watching how CEPRO operates. Listen, listening to what's going on, think trying to put my member hat on thinking what's important for the members, what are the priorities and that kind of thing. So it's been fascinating for that. And that's kind of also been helpful for the external kind of role of fantastic influence out of it, as you as you well know. And things like um Sakipo, so the standing advisory committee, I think I got an ad person um insight onto that. Well, this I see I've been involved in guidelines that were and called it and rules from that perspective. Um, enable to think, I think we spotted early that the one IPO thing was gonna be an interesting um challenge. So there we um obviously uh decided that the thing I didn't even get that channel going. So we've got the digital transformation task force, uh, which Vicky is now running brilliantly, but kind of I was prepared to have been involved in getting that going. So I think we're gonna need this channel. IPO is doing everything it can, but it is fraught as any new IT project is and bringing that in. Um, but also then and then ourselves through CPA. Um things of podcasts you mentioned already. Loving that. We thought we'd do about 10 episodes.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we're gonna do that, I haven't 200. It's been published yet, but we are past 200 recordings.
SPEAKER_03Over 100,000 listens. Sorry, you know, we know people are at the listening, which is exciting. Battle of the Bans, I can't mention that. Yeah, proud to be involved in that as well. You've just announced it now, so we've put it in the. Battle of the Bands is happening. Seeker commit confirms right now, right here. Um, and um one other thing which has kind of been a crossover because I think my C per role and my chair role and things is a lot with IP Inclusive, with Andrew Brewster, um, and I'll be proud to be involved as senior leaders on that one, kind of bringing the together the C-suite and sounds a bit pompous, yeah. Personally, rather than saying we're handing it all over to the HL department, and something I'm quite proud of as well. So on the diversity, equity, inclusion side, loads of kind of work there. And I bonded about it. I know you're fantastic on it, but through that and through the podcasts and consciousness awakening of the issues and my privilege, very very aware of that. So there we go.
SPEAKER_04I'm just gonna snip the little bit out where you said then you're fantastic. That's gonna be like the egg that I'll use forever now.
SPEAKER_03There we go. There we go.
SPEAKER_04So, same question as I asked Debbie
Strategy Plus AI And Market Pressures
SPEAKER_04then. We looking forward a month or so with the AGM. Uh, you find yourself in the exalted position of incoming VP for 27 P for 28. Well, it's a gig point. How are you gonna transform us?
SPEAKER_03Well, first of all, um Debbie's awesome. I want to see that. Um, it's really difficult to be in a contested election with somebody who'd be a really good president. That's probably not what you're supposed to say in an election. But um, I I mentioned I just mentioned the training manual, but um, I'll come to your question. Sorry, question. Debbie Knight, if you work together really closely on the training manual. Well, you also have a really good relationship. But anyway, um, so I I hope she wins. But if she don't do this, it doesn't make sense. Um so I mentioned what I've kind of picked up as honorary secretary, which is that CIPA has a strategy, it's a great strategy. Um closely involved. That means you've got input from private practice, large and small, you've got input from industry as well, you know. So it kind of takes into the whole constituency has been feeding into the strategy. And I think one of the most important points is that presidents are passing fleeting role, it's gonna have a three-year arc, as we all know. You shouldn't be trying to change too much, you should be progressing that. Uh, and that's what I plan to do because I again I ended the strategy completely. Um, and um, from my personal perspective, as I've done with Andrew's secretary, to always have a little filter thing in is this what the members, from my understanding of the members need, and always remembering that I'm private practice through and through, but our members also include industry. And I've always all ever since we were going to China, um, with uh there's not surely anything on the committee, but Ling UK PLC for my P perspective, I've always had to remember there's a you know the the industry side as the private practice side, we're aligned on some stuff, there's additional interest for both. So always remembering that. Um really key areas, training and education. So I think the quality of this profession is the ultimate um factor in our success globally. Best profession in the world, best profession in the world, and if I met best institute in the world too, that's really important. Um I agree. Yeah, but uh, I don't I don't know why. Um, but no, uh I think I think it really is. And and obviously, so training and education, and there's plenty going on with education review and everything at the moment, really, really important. But I think that needs to be part of the bigger picture of what do we need to be training to do? Are our skill sets changing with some of the challenges coming in as starting to look forward? Um I think our influence uh in the UK and abroad is is we punch above our way out outside the UK, and we punch well within the UK. And Matt and his team have been doing six and care, have been doing a great job there. And obviously, we've got really strong links with IPO and a relationship with them, I think, as well, which we cherish. You know, we we have robust conversations if we need to, but it's in the right tone. Critical friend. Yeah, critical friend, and that's how you achieve things. Um, and occasionally there are no critical friends as well. Absolutely, yeah. Well, and obviously, really relationships with people like IP Federation and Sitmar and all these other organizations that we've got loads of experience of working with in the UK. I think globally we support the IPO a lot. Um, when they go out, we've done with them as well, and that influence is important, and we're doing huge amounts with WIPO at the moment, with Neil and so on. All that's got to continue for two reasons. One to actually influence things, and the other is to keep our profile up as those people who really understand and care about IP. Um, so that's a big one. I think another element that's important to me is proportionality. So we've got a lot going on, and we've got a limited resource. Any organization's got those two things, the challenge is we need to make sure that we're focusing on the right things. With education, we're putting the the focus in the right place with web on the regulatory side that we're getting regulated when we're getting the regulation we need and not extra stuff we don't need because it's all costs. Um, and also things like apprenticeship and so on. We need to make sure that we're delivering where the profession needs it and what it's asking for. Um, just keeping an eye on that kind of thing. Because um, again, we've got this much money and these many things we want to switch in. So that's quite big. Um shall I just keep talking for a little bit of minutes? Um important and think that we need to give a heads up, as you would say, in terms of uh making sure that we're um what's he saying? I mean waved up by all he's stopped waving. Oh wait, come on. Um I don't think it was just being friendly. Hi, um I think there's a huge challenge coming, and we've been through plenty of challenges, you know, at CEPA. Um and I've been through a couple more because I don't think you were here for the financial crisis and no, just yeah, just biggest thing. Still hate it. I really wish it had happened. I liked it when your letters came in a bag. Anyway, we have more challenges and they're more um threatening now than I think we've ever seen. Um they come from multiple directions. It's got a challenge, but we now have to deal with our success and our growth. So on there's a lot of patent attorneys out there, you know. So there's a supply and demand point there. Um, there is converse the flattening of demand in filings. I mean there's a lot of patterns being filed every year, but it's definitely, I think, not so it's not gonna go down, but it doesn't seem to be going up in the same way it was the last 20 years, let's say. Commoditization. So the market has kind of fine found the value of patents and the services that we provide, and that's creating new pressures. And then we've got AI. And I'm sure you've talked about AI with with Debbie already, it's just such a huge challenge or opportunity. Uh, and I think this is where we need to take a look up because I think the profession is at a bit of a cusp in terms of all these challenges and what we do about them. And I'm afraid I think if that we all just keep doing what we've been doing, it's got through all the previous crises, but it won't go through this one because all the other previous crises, we had our brains and nothing could beat that. Yeah, and now AI has actually taken one of our core for the first time. Yeah, previously patent attorneys are this fantastic niche that we have really got multiple talents, but we're also willing to extend them on dropped-in office action responses every day, really cheerfully. Cool, and then you'd have an extra syllabus. Yeah, yeah. Um, so I think to address that challenge, and we've got to be quite realistic about the need for bit of change. Yeah, and I know you are very change-minded and you've got some big ambitions and everything else. We need to work out what it is, we need to work out you think as a commissive skill and it's the greatest um benefit, I think, which is the communism that we have, is incredible. The UK professionally uniform because we need each other. We know each other, we go to the congress and we have great times with each other. It is a really impressive thing. I've always that's probably why I like it when I've always been involved. And that community can also now sit together and say, how can we collaborate? You know, we're all there's in competition. Uh, if the UK profession at large is the one that has the competitive benefit over Europe and the world because we're addressing these changes, and we're not seeing people addressing changes at anything like the rate that the UK has already compared, let's say, with some of the European jurisdictions, we've got that opportunity, we've got the community, we've got the connections, we've got the mutual respect and trust to do that. So, really, that's what I would if I were to come out with a little a little bit of a legacy back end of it, it would be to say that, yeah, over this three-year arc, we work together to deal with the education element, the influence element, but also the challenges and the changes and change things a bit so that you keep professionally maintains its kind of local dominance and reputation.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, but same question as I go to Debbie at the end, or you sat, I don't want you to be sat there thinking, oh, I wish I'd said. So any you want to add your pitch. So I think I mean then you probably covered off most of it. Yeah, I don't want you to feel denied the option. No, no.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, I'd I I'd love the role, but she's genuinely heartened that we have two candidates both of them passionate. That's gonna do a great job. But I'd like I'd I'd be interested to do it. I'm not doing it because it's my turn. May I say that really clearly? I'm doing it because I think it's something that I've been working to and I've kind of seen what we could be doing. Fantastic succession of presidents that I I or Debbie would be following, have done fantastic work, continuing that work, but I think a little bit uh focus on what CPA's trying to achieve anyway, remembering that, putting that paramount. So, Closea?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you know, it's caught, you've done this 200 times, maybe with me. Yeah, uh, I'm ready. I'm gonna be quite from the ski afterwards. No, no, no, not uh no, I am just in the Parkinson role here today. Um, so the question that I asked Debbie, so I asked Debbie uh to that kind of piece of learning that was perhaps a little bit unusual.
Guitar Lessons And Voting Details
SPEAKER_04You've talked about teaching, or you've had it QM. Uh doesn't need to be there, it could be anywhere in your life. What's the most unusual thing you ever taught people to do? Or maybe the most pleasure, you came out of it thinking, oh yeah, no, I did that really well.
SPEAKER_03The lockdown, I mean I always give silly answers, though. You're not expecting a meaningful one. I'm sorry I've got meaningful, but I never expect a meaningful one. No, yeah, you don't get that. I'll never the firm was really good at keeping community going again, as you were. Um you know, with loads of zoomy things going on. At one point, I am a very poor guitarist, but I thought there must be some guitarists worse than me. So I offered online to the firm uh an online kind of you know introductory beginners guitar lesson where all I intended to do was show them how to play three chords. Yeah. And everyone who dialed in was way, way, way better than me. It was so embarrassing. So um that was uh I wasn't a lot of proof there. Yeah. That's what springs to mind.
SPEAKER_04That's that's no great example. So um you did try, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh thank you for coming on and talking to me and kind of sharing your hopes and aspirations for the presidency. Best of luck. Thanks. Hope it goes really, really well. Uh we'll we'll know in about a month. So just to kind of finish off with the logistics, the election will go live on or around about the 19th of October. Uh members will have about two and a half weeks to cast their votes. We'll remind them regularly within that to do that. And yeah, so at the at the AGM in November will be the big reveal, and none of us will know until the moment of the reveal uh how it's turned out. So, yeah, best of luck. Thank you all for listening in to the webinar today. That brings us to a close. I hope you've enjoyed the opportunity to hear from both Debbie and Grillam uh as they set out their stall for what the presidencies will look for. And yeah, I hope it inspires future competitions and we get to do this again because I think it's um I think it's just great to give the members the opportunity to um to engage in this way.